NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

topic posted Thu, September 20, 2007 - 9:34 PM by  *NetworkGirl*
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You won't see Art car similar to these: www.artcaragency.com/
because they are not "Mutant Vehicles".

What do you think about that?

No Art Cars at SF Decompression, they were invited, but aren't interested in coming because they aren't going to have a place in BM 2008.
posted by:
*NetworkGirl*
SF Bay Area
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Fri, September 21, 2007 - 12:11 PM
    Well...I agree with them on this one. If it's just a car that's been painted or has a bunch of stuff attached to it then it shouldn't be driving around at burningman. I like the idea that if you can tell what kind of car it is then it shouldn't be allowed.

    They would let the high heel in wouldn't they?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Fri, September 21, 2007 - 12:18 PM
      A lot of those cars are a lot cooler than some of the stuff driving around black rock city though. It just seems like they are trying to differentiate themselves from something you can see on the road in the 'default' world. Not all of those cars would be denied, would they?
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Fri, September 21, 2007 - 1:29 PM
    All of the sculptural art cars would get licenses. And all of the others could be drive through the gates and be parked for display, they just wouldn't be able to drive freely. This has been the case for years. I don't think it's feasible to try to judge whether one car-with-stuff-glued-on-it is worthy to get a license over another based on artistic merrit, and if they were all let in there would be too many cars. So the bar they've chosen is to no longer be able to recognize it as being a car.
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Fri, September 21, 2007 - 6:35 PM
      Its sad though, this not only bands a car, this limits a culture that is very much a part of the origins of Burning Man. Numerous Burning Man city-wide events and fundraisers have featured Art Cars and the Work of Harrod Blank. We loose the cars we loose the people that drive them.
      With many things that involve tradition, there are 'grandfather' clauses, this would seem appropriate for any one with historical ties to BM/and the Art Car World.
      • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Fri, September 21, 2007 - 8:14 PM
        What exactly do you think is changing? The rules have been in place for years. They're just now getting around to enforcing them a little more like they've been saying they would.

        Is there some specific car that used to be allowed but won't be in 2008? Who gets to decide which cars are grandfathered in?
        • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

          Sun, September 23, 2007 - 11:00 PM
          Here's what's changing: art cars are getting to be HUGE people-carrying barges and the DMV seems to like these behemoths; that's a bad trend in my book. If it were up to me I'd set a size limit on things that aren't sufficiently modified; i.e. the Contessa was huge but it looked the part. A cross-town bus with a hinge in the middle and some colorful crap draped over it shouldn't get a license just because it can carry a shitload of people. Small art cars not getting permits because they can't carry passengers? Well I can always tow a trailer and so can most of the other ones if that makes the DMV happy...
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    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Sat, September 22, 2007 - 10:59 PM
    The number of "licensed" vehicles is limited by the BLM from what I heard. I would guess that "public transportation" has come into play somewhat. As mentioned this trend is nothing new, party barges are in and personal transport is out. Pedal power is unlimited from what I understand, feel free to make ANY artbike ya want. I loved seeing stuff parked equally as the ones that were being driven, at time a little more since you got to notice the lil things like bent levels placed on the rear deck and funny graffiti painted small. I hope some folks still bring their rides to be appreciated even though they can no longer cruise the playa with their friends in their own personal ride for only 2 or 4.
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      Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Sun, September 23, 2007 - 12:34 AM
      I'm all for a limited number of truly significant grandfathered in 'art cars' and OMG fits this category for me. They probably didn't go this rout because the logistics of "truly significant" could be so subjective. OMG was one of the first art cars I remember seeing in the daytime at BM in 01(I think it was in 01 anyway; I was only there for 1 1/2 days so it might have been 02) It has held a special spot in my brain since that encounter.

      PS: Networkgirl, thanks for the amazing link! I could get lost there for days.

      Also would something like the Rue Morge be denied? You can definately tell that it used to be a hearse, or still kind of is, but so much more... Did they hassle you guys for your day license? More than the normal amount of hassle? Did they say anything about next year?
      • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Sun, September 23, 2007 - 10:38 AM
        As far as Grandfathering specific vehicles I d have to say Im against that. It narrows down fresh ideas. I love a lot of the art cars I see time an time again and Id miss them. I do think people need to freshen them up a bit though. Changing EL wire does not constitute change. Its a lot of work to make an art car and I understand they should make use of them and their expense. They can still be re-used.

        More theme specific vehicles would be what Id like to see.
        • Public Transportation - Possible Future for Burning Man

          Sun, September 23, 2007 - 12:08 PM
          "I would guess that "public transportation" has come into play somewhat." - Thanks for mentioning 'public transportation'. I was thinking if things continue the way they are and people are being left out based on peoples judgments of what should get licenses and what not.

          Perhaps the whole DMV system needs to be dropped and instead public transportation, commissioned by Burning Man is developed i.e. Buses (like floats) developed in collaborative by artists/volunteers. Volunteer sober drivers would be enlisted to service the major roads of BM throughout the event, making everyone safer. "Green" Bicycles, stationed at the stops. A Carbon offesting donation made by Burning Man to make the whole cycle more green. The buses would be redesigned/re-purposed every year.

          TheNetworkGirl
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Sun, September 23, 2007 - 5:42 PM
      "The number of "licensed" vehicles is limited by the BLM from what I heard. "
      Yeah, I’ve heard this too. But when I've asked for documentation from the DMV, all I've gotten was the equivalent of "Why do you hate freedom?”. Does anyone know where (or if) this limit is actually written down? Cites?

      Party barges are definitely in, there were "mutant" vehicles out there whose only modification seemed to be a roof rack and railing. Do you really believe this answers the requirement for mutants so modified you can't tell what the base vehicle is? It would be nice if the DMV just bit the bullet and declared that their 'rules' do not apply if it is a party bus (extra points for stripper pole).

      One other odd thing I’ve noticed over the years, every DMV and Borg person I've corresponded with agrees that one of the best ways to reduce the number of dangerous, speeding motor vehicles out there would be to eliminate the loophole for gas-powered scooters. Why are these things exempted? What is the overriding rationale that allows these carte-blanc while allowing a small group the power to decide whether modified vehicles are "cool" enough for them to put a sticker on (see previous post by Dork).

      I'd love to hear a solid answer, but have never gotten anything but the "well, if you were part of DMV you'd understand". So we have a system that is OK with enforcing a set of rules that can only be understood by becoming part of the enforcing organization? Does that sound familiar to anyone? What kind of person would enjoy that authority?

      I absolutely agree, Tool. If this is the state of the mess, the right answer is definitely to go with pedal power, which is not (yet) under the lidless eye of the DMV. Sadly, this dramatically reduces the scope of art you can create (due to weight), but at least you don’t have to work within a system that seems OK with
      “In '07 the BM DMV had some 1400 pre-approval applications of which about half got the go-ahead to bring their vehicles to the playa. Of the 800 or so who actually did I believe about 600 of them received on-site permits (some combination of day and night).”

      So less than half of the burners who worked on mutant vehicles this year were allowed to share them with the City. OK I can buy into that, IF THERE IS AN ACTUAL LIMIT FROM THE BLM, but then one quarter of the folks who hauled their art hundreds of miles to the playa based on a form letter approval from the DMV, were told, “Sorry, I have decided your vehicle is not cool enough”? How is this acceptable, when in any other type of art this would engender riots from the populace? The only thing I can see that makes this make sense is if the people of BRC buy into the BLM Vehicle Limit. Swell, I do too. Where is it documented? And if it does, does it specifically allow gas-powered scooters? If not, who makes up these rules?

      Just wondering,
      Bartholomew
      (pedal-car driver for the last 3 burns)
      • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Mon, September 24, 2007 - 6:22 PM
        When I saw the title of this thread, I figured it was a troll -- until I saw who posted it ....

        I looked back at the DMV stuff on the Org's website after the event, and I think the essence of TNG's post is exactly correct: The DMV has a thing for "mutant vehicles," and mere "art cars" are no longer as welcome ... and the DMV gets to decide what those words mean ...

        And that is inevitably the problem. There's no doubt that a city bus wrapped in pink fur carries a lot of people and is decorated ... but when it's really just the camp taxi so that cool kids from the Deep End can get up high to watch the burn, how does that provide "public transport"? How is it actually "mutated"?

        No one disputes that it's totally cool when a swarm of Cupcakes or a Bath Tub Duck appears out of a dust cloud -- but don't expect a ride .. That's what art cars are for -- it's an actual service they perform. A "legitimacy" test is fine, but why should they be discouraged, and why certain art cars get grandfathered, to the exclusion of new ideas?
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          Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

          Mon, September 24, 2007 - 10:39 PM
          I don't get why party barges are allowed; They certainly don't pass the "can't recognize the base vehicle standard". I guess because they supposedly provide transportation/art tours. I have only been on one. I didn't really like the vibe and got off after about a half hour. All the other times they were full or moving or closed for a private party. I kind of forgot about party barges. It's another instance of bigger is not necessarily better IMHO.

          I'm not sure where the "can't recognize the base vehicle standard" came from. Did 'we' just make that up? Are party barges exempt?

          My MV fit about 15 people on top and 6 to 8 below. It seemed to be a good balance on interactivity. It would be hard not to interact with the other people on board and we welcomed everyone when it wasn't full.

          Stand up scooters too, just horrible any way you look at them unless they are electric or muffled better and extremely decorated/mutated and going S L O W. It's weird how much dust those little things kick up. Maybe it's the small knobby tires.

          BUT

          If you draw something and it gets approved to be brought to BM and then you build what you drew... you will definately get approved. It really is only the questionable things that get rejected. (and now art cars, but they will not get approved to even be brought to BM to get a driving license)

          Would you rather see an Art Car at Burning Man or a Mutant Vehicle? It seems that it is much easier to make most Art Cars as well. This probably factors into the decision also. It seems like they are reaching the limit at 600. The bar has to be raised somewhere. Yes, the event is constantly changing; I'm thinking the Mutant Vehicle enforcement change is in the right direction.

          I do realize the frustration of the people who started bringing art cars to Burning Man; It sucks to be rejected. And Thank You, that has lead us to where we are now.

          PS: I thought the Happy Birthday cake MV was kind of silly until it sang Happy Birthday to me on my birthday. It was also the first time my 8, 7, and 3 year old kids were with me on my actual birthday. (I'm always at BM and they usually aren't) It came cruising by us out on the playa and at first the kids thought it was just for me. This was about an hour after they had gotten to BM and also about 3 in the morning. They had been sleeping most of the way there and were to amped to go to bed. We saw it cruising by and I yelled "Hey, it's my Birthday" and they immediately broke into song, pausing for me and the kids to fill in my name. I think the driver slowed down a little but he didn't stop. It couldn't have been a more perfect moment.
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    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Mon, September 24, 2007 - 10:08 PM
    The BLM permit stuff is here

    www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca...ningman.htm

    I saw no specific number/limit to mutant vehicles. This page may not be the complete "deal" the ORG has with BLM. From what I saw in the stips section BRC controls the vehicles. There may be liability issues with ORG direct involvement with our public transportation. The Yellow bikes were donated so I think the ORG gets an out if someone falls off one and tries to sue. Personally I think the DMV handles everything pretty well. Day permits for those with insufficient lighting so they can still roll. Sometimes people can even get help at the event to get their ride fixed up and/or safety issues resolved so they can roll a couple days into the event. I would hope that some sort of arrangement can be made so these vehicles can be displayed somewhere central at the event.

    On a thread drift in case anyone DMV or ORG checks this thread...

    Rather than ban art cars, how about we stop the tourists from driving ALL WEEK long. I saw 4 different vehicles ALL WEEK long being driven regularly.
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:16 PM
    I would expect that attitude at DMV is not that art cars (ie. decorated cars as seen at art car fest) are not banned at all. What's banned, it seems, is using them as personal motorized transportation. You can certainly take them and even park them out on the Playa as a work of art like any sculpture to be seen by all, just not use them for transportation.

    I can see the logic in that. When driving was (mostly) banned the goal was to seriously limit the number of vehicles driving on the playa, and there are reasons for this. I think one way to see the ethic would be "you're allowed to drive if by driving you are contributing something to the community."

    Is it the case that the community contribution of an art car requires it to move, or can it be appreciated just as well stationary as driving? I would have to say that for most of the "banned" cars the latter answer is true. And that's also true for some of the mutant vehicles on the playa now. For some vehicles the judgement is easy, in either direction. There are borderline cases too, however.

    As such, a bus or party barge clearly only makes its contribution because it moves and carries people. A playa artist's Penske truck gets a playa pass because it helps construct art. Undecorated staff vehicles and LEO vehicles perform their function.

    With this slightly different ethic, it would seem reasonable to allow a completely undecorated bus to go out driving as long as it is willing to carry any who ask until it's full. However, it's not hard to see the merit in demanding a mutation because this adds even more. We would rather have the nautilus than an ordinary bus if given the chance.

    On the other hand, whatever rule is chosen to limit who drives, it is better if it's as objective as possible, and this concept isn't as good as I would like it. OMG can be appreciated just as well stopped as moving, if not moreso. Fast Furnishings Cupcakes are much cooler because they glide and swarm on the playa. The space shuttle which shoots smoke out the back can only do so while moving, but is otherwise not as heavily mutated as most.

    There is another thing to consider. Many people build small mutant vehicles because they want to have motorized wheels, and view the mutation requirement effectively as the "price" of getting the licence to drive. I've certainly talked to many who have expressed their desire in approximately these lines, and indeed almost everybody on the playa has no doubt felt the desire to have an art car. No matter what set of rules are set, people who want wheels will build something to that set of rules and view it as a price.

    Is this something we want to encourage or discourage? It does cause more mutants to be generated, including cool ones. It also generates lame ones. And of course there are still many who build because they want to make a cool and creative vehicle, not because it's the only way they can drive.
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:03 AM
      --Well yeah I see some of your point, but a parked 'art car' ain't a 'car', it's just 'art'!! I guess you're saying the DMV wants us all to bring our bikes, hang up our tools and look like downtown Shanghai. If that happens I think BM is moving a *lot* closer to the 'why bother' type of event that we associate with the 'default world', yes? Dunno if any of what I just wrote makes sense, but...
      • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Tue, October 9, 2007 - 6:34 PM
        Yep, it makes sense. This is just what the DMV uses to excuse their self-enjoyed ability to decide what art cars are allowed on the playa.
        "We don't ban art cars, we just ban art cars that move". My favorite reply from them was a post that said that banned a car that had fabric that they decided would tear off if it moved. Um, if it is a static art piece, it will be subject to 60 mph winds. If it is moving, at worst it is then subject to 65 mph winds (by BM rule). Are the "Hotties" really that technologically savvy that they can tell the difference? I doubt it.

        It doesn’t matter, they'll make the rules they enjoy enforcing. My suggestion is to avoid playing into their power trip and build an art bike.
        So far, the BORG hasn't decided it makes monetary sense to regulate those.
        • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

          Wed, October 10, 2007 - 7:37 PM
          I was too cranky last night. I know there are many fine folks who give up part of their playa time to help out at DMV, just as there are those that seem to revel in their ability to decide who gets a pass.. As long as the rules are as subjective as they have been, this will remain an issue.
          • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

            Thu, October 11, 2007 - 8:37 AM
            I have no qualms with DMV myself. The policies seem a bit unsure in my mind but if one listens well to the needs of the event then one can insure that their time spent on building an art car will be well spend and with reward.
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:46 PM
    Please consider the following:

    In 2007 the DMV Hotties contributed around 3000 volunteer hours so that mobile art would be possible.

    The BLM permit for the event requires the vehicles be registered with the BRC.

    Roughly speaking 300 static art pieces were placed on the open playa.

    In the region of 500 mutant vehicles were licensed to operate.

    47,000 people attended.

    The opportunity to have your creation or art move under power is limited, and the community has high expectations for those that do.

    Do you want to see the same thing year after year, with the result being the exclusion of new mutant vehicle possibilities?
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Fri, October 12, 2007 - 10:49 AM
      huh, kinda funny since back in the day those were the bomb art cars LOL. No one did anything else pretty much. Since so many of us bring our cars out though I guess you gotta weed em out some kind of way.
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    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:21 PM
    In 1997, Black Rock City underwent a transformation. After a participant was severely injured in an auto accident in 1996, New rules told folks to park their cars at their campsites — and leave them there. Instead of driving, people walked or rode bicycles. Getting from one place to another in our city now became a story of immediate encounter; spontaneous social interactions multiplied, and a true community began to coalesce.

    We had discovered that relying on our cars to get around had reproduced a too-familiar world. It was a world of personal convenience. Experience was ordered by discrete consumer choices. From the standpoint of a driver or a passenger, this was a very controlled and, above all, a relentlessly intentional world. People would elect to visit some attraction, and then drive there in a metal isolation booth. Experience between points A and B became a view seen through a dusty windshield, fleeting and vicarious, like a television travelogue. But pedestrians and bicyclists experienced a very uncontrolled environment. For them, our event had become, by 1996, a very dangerous place. Stretching out upon the ground to view the stars, walking on the playa without reflectors or a flashlight, even sleeping in a tent, could place a person in harm's way.

    The reforms of 1997 turned Black Rock City into a more civilized community. Not only were participants made safer, they were now liberated to explore their experience of the desert, our city and one another. Burning Man organizers were justifiably proud of this change. They had triumphed over the tyranny of the automobile. This accomplishment, however, must be viewed in relation to one of the fundamental facts of modern life: people always want a ride. And Americans, in particular, always seem to want an easy ride. To live and lie reclined might be our national motto. Liberty and convenience, freedom and ease — these slogans could, with justice, be imprinted on our money. This expectation of convenience is our heritage as members of a consumer culture.

    As cities evolve, so does transportation. Unlike most cities, Black Rock City’s survival depends on participants rejecting the prevailing car culture of the default world and embracing alternative transportation. Public safety concerns are reason enough for Burning Man to be a pedestrian/bicycle city. When the event first moved out to the playa in 1990, there were no rules about vehicles. By 1996,with still only 8,000 participants, the dust problems and hazards of casual and recreational driving had become extreme. In 1997, casual driving was designed out of Black Rock City transportation. According to Harley K. Dubois, Director of Community Services and Playa Safety Team, 1997 was critical in the evolution of the event not only because it was “the first year that you could bike around without worrying about getting hit by a car, ”but also because it was then that bike culture truly emerged. It was also the year that saw the formation of a regulatory body to grant driving privileges to vehicles that are truly participatory in nature… the art car or “Mutant Vehicle.” Mutant Vehicles are “sublimely beautiful movable works of art that appear to float along the playa like objects in a Miro painting,” says Larry Harvey, Founder and Director of the Burning Man project. The Department of Mutant Vehicles (DMV) was created in 1997 so that these vehicles can be integrated safely into our community. “Driving is a privilege at Burning Man, not a right,” says Jewelz Cody, aka Grits, Head of the DMV in 1997. With the survival of the event at stake the whole spectrum of vehicles are up for inspection. Some vehicles showcase the creativity and hard work necessary to create the whimsically beautiful mutant vehicles. Other vehicles, shallowly disguised convenience vehicles, evidenced the persistence of car culture in our society. The difference between convenience vehicles and true Mutant Vehicles is sometimes subtle and most clearly lies in the intention behind it. Will that golf cart with a bit of fuzzy fabric zip-tied to it really add to the community’s experience or is it really so you can make ice runs and have your own playa cruiser? However, digging deeper, perhaps an even more important consideration is: Why do you really want to drive at Burning Man?

    The survival of Burning Man relies on its participants embracing the pedestrian/bicycle nature of the event and leaving the car culture in the default world. The survival of Mutant Vehicles at Burning Man relies on community ownership of this public safety issue.

    Art Cars composed of cast off conjoinments, mash-ups, stripped bodies and glue and screw gun, slap it together creations start to pale in comparison to Mutant Vehicles with solid conceptual direction towards an unmistakable dominant image or idea where the base vehicle is for the most part unrecognizable. As greater numbers of people craft excellent new Mutants, fewer and fewer Art Car applicants will be invited back.

    www.burningman.com/on_the_p.../dmv.html
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Mon, October 22, 2007 - 9:24 PM
    I thinks that its bullshit!~ who is to say what one consider art.
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Mon, October 22, 2007 - 11:50 PM
      You can say what is a Mutant Vehicle. Instead of calling BS, join the team and work with us.
      • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Tue, October 23, 2007 - 10:12 AM
        Yeah sorry! I was being a lil harsh. bad week! This last year it seemed the DMV was being a little more strict on what could be considered and art car/ mutant vehicle. If the vehicle is safe and has artistic Merritt, I feel it should have a place on the Playa..
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          Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

          Tue, October 23, 2007 - 11:13 AM
          >>If the vehicle is safe and has artistic Merritt,<<

          El Dough I think it has to have a much higher bar than that. There are too many vehicles. Even this year there were quite a few vehicles that looked to me like they started with the idea of a personal conveyance and the 'art' was an afterthought.

          Walk or ride a bike; if you want to drive something it had better be amazing! Raise the bar even higher! We as a community will rise to bar. Let's make the job of the DMV hotties easy. If you want to make a mutant vehicle, make it so there isn't even a question that it should be allowed.

          As to the point about making room for new ideas; ask anyone who has made a mutant vehicle. It takes a lot of time and money. That's why you don't see some of the best ones returning year after year. Like that one last year with the dragon flies etc. I would have loved to see that again. I bet that guy took a much needed break.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

            Tue, October 23, 2007 - 11:20 AM
            While my comments were not directed only towards you I just looked at your profile and realized you have made a MV. Nice work on the Iceberg. I never saw it up close but it looked really cool from a distance. I did see the bear and penguins at the SF decom. they were very cool too.
            • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

              Tue, October 23, 2007 - 11:54 AM
              Thanks! We worked long and hard on the ice flo. I just remember in dealing with the DMV how discriminate they are already. Take for example The Blood Vessel. It still resembles a hearse. But you can tell allot of thought and work went into it. Under the new guidelines would such a MV be allowed on the playa? Should a MV not be able to be recognized as a car at all?
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                Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

                Tue, October 23, 2007 - 12:11 PM
                El-D

                I would really encourage you to read through the all the text and pics. Then you might get a better understanding of why the Blood Vessel was invited. Take into consideration why the DMV changed the terminology to Mutant Vehicles and perhaps you can see past a perception that the DMV is judging "Art".

                tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...5da4898f40
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                Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

                Tue, October 23, 2007 - 12:12 PM
                El-D

                I would really encourage you to read through all the text and pics. Then you might get a better understanding of why the Blood Vessel was invited. Take into consideration why the DMV changed the terminology to Mutant Vehicles and perhaps you can see past a perception that the DMV is judging "Art".

                tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...5da4898f40
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

                Tue, October 23, 2007 - 1:04 PM
                Well, it is part of their MO. Some of them anyway. I had one guy at the DMV give me a ration of shit before the event even started. He and his lady friend were both being real A-holes. "I hope you arent planning on getting a day license for that" screamed across the playa and "You are going to get a ticket from BLM" among other things. After I walked over and listened to him and then politely stated the event and the restrictions on driving had not even started yet and I was not finished decorating, he sort of toned it down and said it was part of his job to be like that.

                When I went back the next day to get licensed everyone was very professional and quite pleasant even though there was some question about weather or not the van was covered enough.

                The year before was a similar experience. They were questioning the structural integrity and also debating on weather the vehicle was covered enough. Kind of stressful when they hold the power to deny driving privleges on something you have put a lot of time and $ into.

                I second what Red says. That other tribe seems to be run and populated by actual DMV hotties and the descriptions of the pictures have a lot of good info and insight. This is the Art Car tribe. I think maybe we should give it back and move over there.
                • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

                  Tue, October 23, 2007 - 9:31 PM
                  I was one of the people that built the Blood Vessel, and yeah, we heard the various comments about the fact that it still resembled a hearse, etc. But at the heart of it, that was the point of the project, as it was a key part of our public theme camp, the Rue Morgue, which throughout the year prior to the playa as well as during the event allowed those who wanted to write a memory on a piece of origami paper and we'd teach them to fold it into a crane. Those cranes were placed in special playatech designed coffins which were presented to the temple prior to it's burning. The hearse was used to carry the coffins to the temple, as well as provided an experience unlike most other cars for the riders.

                  While on playa, I heard many MANY comments about how our car was really what people thought about as a Mutant Vehicle, as compared to "just another car with fabric covering rebar". I think it really does take all types and that different interpretations should be welcomed to the playa. Granted, I understand a mutant vehicle should be more than just a car with some paint, fur or other shit tacked on, I think the DMV needs to be open minded to various projects.

                  Take a look at BRC animal control.. Just a box van, but totally interactive. I think it absolutely deserves a place on the playa.
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          Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

          Tue, October 23, 2007 - 11:16 AM
          "If the vehicle is safe and has artistic Merritt, I feel it should have a place on the Playa"

          That's an often heard debate by creator's of vehicles with an intent on driving at Black Rock City, but the truth is, not every person with a motorized vehicle that "they" feel is appropriate for the playa can be licensed and still preserve a pedestrian and bike friendly event.
          • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

            Wed, October 24, 2007 - 7:58 PM
            Please do not take this wrong, I think your little red wagons are cute. But as you are making a major defence of how the DMV is operating, I have to ask: how is a set of mass-produced toy wagons pulled by an undecorated ATC a "Mutant Vehicle"?
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

              Thu, October 25, 2007 - 5:32 PM
              No offense taken. It allows me the opportunity to say that I know how it feels to be denied approval by the DMV.

              The WAGON TRAIN was retired in 2004 when I was asked not to return with an un-modified mini bike as the engine. My creation pre-dated DMV review and similar to many vehicles that were on the playa before the enforcement of a stickered license by the BLM, I was encouraged by the DMV to make some changes in order to better fit in with the evolution to "Mutant Vehicles" in 2004. My personal feeling was that after five years it was time to do something new for the community.

              Please understand that I'm not making any "defense" for how the DMV is run. I offer up insight and directly quoted information found on the Burning Man website so that people interested in applying for an invitation to bring a motorized vehicle to Black Rock City understand how a Mutant Vehicle is determined and how the "bar has been raised" each year on what qualifies.

              tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...5da4898f40

              Typically around 500 mutants have been licensed. With almost 50 thousand people attending, people should understand that proposals from applicants are getting better each year and because of that fact, some vehicles may not be asked to return if they don't continually improve their contribution in relationship with the rest of the Mutant Vehicle fleet.

              When the mutants exceed the art placed on the open playa, it's time for people to consider what the tipping point is for an event primarily evolving around static art pieces in a bicycle and pedestrian community. If motorized transportation is an applicants primary desire, instead of a jaw dropping creation, perhaps it's not in the best interest of the overall community for them to be approved for the very limited opportunities for an invitation.
              • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

                Fri, October 26, 2007 - 1:44 AM
                We brought a 30' motorized pile of garbage, and got licensed. I don't think it's that hard.
                I would like to see more cars that have technical excellence and innovation together as a part of the art. Coming at it from a 'car guy' viewpoint, 90% of the cars on the playa are without merit, most are lackluster to disheveled machnies covered with a veneer of art. That not gettin onto the cars with stuff gluegunned to a stock body. I'm not saying noe of those should qualify, but gluing 1000 plastic toys to the side isn't gonna cut it. Make it 100 gears and pulleys running a giant music box with wind power, and I am down.
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    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Sun, October 28, 2007 - 3:03 PM
    WHO GIVES A FUCK!

    We are gving the Dub Rocket away after BM 2007. We have decided after this year's BM fiasco that we have better places to spend our money and time. We can do more with our time, energy, and money to support local charities and others in need rather than putting more money into BMORG coffers.

    FUCK LARRY, THE AIR HE BREATHS, AND THE HORSE HE ROAD IN ON
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Sun, October 28, 2007 - 3:31 PM
    Glue and screw "obsessive collection" Art Cars have become so common in everyday life that they are fodder for internet parody.

    Playazon DIY Art Car Kits

    Take one junker car, add a few gallons of industrial adhesive and several hundred (or thousand) of just about any similar items, and you have one of the coolest types of mutant vehicle on the playa; The "obsessive collection" art car. Why not make this the year you make the transition from spectator to spectated? Since you probably already have a suitable vehicle in your garage, all you need is a couple of free weekends and one of our Do-It-Yourself Art Car Kits. So if you think you have what it takes to get one of these collections on the road, E-mail our auto parts specialist at acparts at playazon . com to check prices, availability and shipping options.

    www.playazon.com/transport/ac_kit.html
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:39 AM
    I drive an art car as my daily driver. I'll be the first to admit that not all art cars are mutant vehicles. Mine isn't, it's more of a moving sculpture.

    The BM site says "The only Mutant Vehicles to receive licenses will be radical works of art, or vehicles with a high participation factor. "

    So my art car will have a place at BM 2008, happily staying parked at the campsite where it doubles as a kitchen, and I will enjoy seeing the "giant atomic uber steampunk party vehicles" roaming about that really deserve to.

    -g
    • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Mon, January 14, 2008 - 1:04 AM
      I am really disappointed reading this thread! I thought I would find burners helping other burners. Exchanging tips for more efficient fire effects reusing and swapping parts,etc. Supporting and improving each other.
      All of you critical bystanders that have never brought or attempted to bring one, Big or small, should just keep your opinions to yourselves or at least not on a tribe for art cars and the people who put the hearts into them.
      Do you also go up to the fat girls and tell them they shouldn't be dressed like that? Do laugh at a person gifting you a neckless and say keep it Ive had better?
      Whether it appeals to YOUR individual taste scale, more times than not, means much more to the people involved than the sum of its parts. Its like one of their campmates and represents their efforts as a group to create it, get it there, and keep it running. Some of my most favorite pictures are of the people in various levels of attempted types of carts or vehicles. It is their individuality in the moment, actually participating, whether it is good bad or ugly to someone else...... is what burning man is about.
      You honestly think that people would go to all the expense, time and craziness just because they want an easy way to get a round for the few days they are there. Maybe some....... but not most.
      The Dmv actually does a pretty good job. Not perfect, but they are mostly cool and are thinking of safety first . They have set limits and regulations. If you see a car driving around barely decorated chances are it does not even have a permit at all or it is a support vehicle of some kind. Maybe a day pass to service an art installation or something that is used by part of the crews that come early and build center camp, etc.
      So unless you are one of the people here on this thread that actually has an Art car, then quit being such "spectator" snobs. If you don't like the idea of art cars...... don't sit your dusty ass on one. Let everyone else have their own fun. The most amazing experiences do not only happen on the "coolest " most spectacular mutant vehicles. Some will blow you away....... some will not, GET OVER IT!
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

        Sun, March 23, 2008 - 8:40 PM
        Burning Man is a bike and pedestrian community by design and as required by the BLM special stipulations . Mutant vehicles have been incorporated into that design in a quantity that celebrates their uniqueness.

        BLM meets with the event organizers, Black Rock City, LLC, several times between events to discuss ways to improve management and administration, to make the festival safer each year than it was the year before, and to protect resources. Among changes implemented have been increased oversight and more stringent enforcement of the rules applied to "mutant vehicles" (the highly imaginative vehicles of all sizes used by participants to cruise the playa). "Mutant vehicles found to be unsafe or not in compliance with Black Rock City's operating plan were impounded for the duration of the event,"

        tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...6231802465
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    Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:16 PM
    Many folks planning to make the sojourn to Black Rock are asking lots of questions and seeking clarification around the myriad issues that make coming to the event both challenging and rewarding. One of the most repeated requests for clarification has to do with issues related to mutant vehicles and the current policies regarding registration and approval of them.

    In response to the growing number of safety problems of vehicles being operated in an unsafe manner during the event and the complaints generated as a result, the driving regulations are strictly enforced. Note that these regulations do not reflect a mandate imposed by LEOs (law enforcement organizations). Nor do they represent collaboration with LEOs by the Black Rock Rangers. The decision to place a greater emphasis on long standing regulations is in response to the innumerable complaints expressed by participants both during the event as well as input submitted throughout the year around issues of safety. We're appealing to a higher instinct here folks. Simply put the rules for driving on the playa have not changed. The amount of emphasis being placed on those regulations has. It is about taking responsibility for ourselves when we need to.

    In their purest form mutant vehicles serve as a form of mobile interaction with a great number of participants and contribute dramatically to the surreal experience which many of us experience each year during the event. They are "A thread that binds Black Rock City together. They are 'visual sculpture on wheels': radically, stunningly beautiful... and are core to the culture and community of Burning Man."

    tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...2e725f39ed
  • Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

    Sun, May 4, 2008 - 9:21 AM
    Why don't they apply stricter rules to the night time licenses, when there's more danger and stupid car (and pedestrian) behavior?

    I have never witnessed serious problems with mutant vehicles during the day. It's only at night that things get sketchy.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:56 PM
      I take it that the "they" you are referring to is either the Burning Man organizers (LLC, BRC or Org) and the law enforcement agencies at the event and "stricter rules" to mean you want to be assured reasonable safety as you bike or walk around Black Rock City. Are you familiar with the current rules?

      Driving Rules at Burning Man

      All Vehicles Drivers or motorized vehicles authorized to move about at Burning Man must adhere to all BRC driving rules, which include:

      Abiding by all applicable federal and Nevada state laws

      Driving at a speed of 5 mph (or less, if kicking up dust, or in hazardous situations such as tight crowds)

      Giving the right of way to pedestrians, bicycles, and emergency services vehicles

      Following the reasonable and applicable vehicle laws for road safety

      Stopping immediately upon being hailed by any BRC Staff member, Black Rock Ranger, or law enforcement officer

      Not driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol

      Not driving in pedestrian walkways, pedestrian-designated streets, or the Esplanade (see your map for details)

      Stopping during whiteouts

      In addition to adhering to the driving rules indicated above, Mutant Vehicles must:

      Create a clear field of vision for the operator, including rear and side mirrors

      Have ground guides (walkers) if the vehicle is large, has a limited field of vision or is dangerous to pedestrians

      Have a safe access area and procedures for loading and unloading passengers

      Clearly display the Mutant Vehicle license in a location specified by the DMV

      www.burningman.com/preparat....html#dmv

      tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/phot...817d62f913

      Please understand that these regulations do not reflect a mandate imposed by LEOs (law enforcement organizations). Nor do they represent collaboration with LEOs by the Black Rock Rangers. The decision to place a greater emphasis on long standing regulations is in response to the innumerable complaints expressed by participants both during the event as well as input submitted throughout the year around issues of safety. Community complaints to Black Rock Ranger or the DMV are noted by the Hotties on the Mutant Vehicle data base and have resulted in rejection of future requests for licensing.

      Just as in any city, some people choose to break established rules and endanger us all and advocates for a greater police presence are a minority . . .
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: NO ART CARS - BM 2008...

      Wed, July 9, 2008 - 10:06 PM
      Black Rock Ranger Intercept

      The Ranger Intercept team was established in 2004 for patrolling the inner playa with vehicles and bicycles and addressing issues with unapproved / unlicensed vehicles, golf carts, ATVs, scooters, motorcycles, go carts, and automobiles driving through the city and on the open playa, reckless driving and speeding by both licensed and unlicensed vehicles and vehicle-related injuries

      Intercept has two specific tasks. Primarily, Intercept addresses vehicle safety concerns within Black Rock City. Their other key mission is to convey how seriously burning Man takes vehicle safety to the various Law Enforcement Agencies who would otherwise take matters into their own hands. The most important point in understanding about Intercept is that if the Rangers don’t handle it someone else will. The Intercept program is framed in a manner to present itself as a safety plan to Law Enforcement Agencies in a format they can understand. The Intercept manual is not written as a list of rules and regulations, with specific consequences and response. Rangers must have a lot of leeway and discretion to address issues, without being constrained by protocol. Intercept works closely with Khaki, Dirt Rangers, other Ranger departments, and DMV to help keep our community safe.

      Intercept removes or escorts vehicles from the playa and the city, either to long-term parking near the Gate or back to their camps. They have at their disposal a fully operational tow truck for moving vehicles to long-term parking. The Intercept team uses rotating amber lights on the vehicles to keep track of each other and to establish a visible presence as a deterrent to speeders or reckless drivers when a visible presence is required.

      In addition to staff vehicles, the Intercept squad has bike-mobile Rangers. Bikes are used for tracking a vehicle discreetly without increasing a driver's tendency to speed due to the perception that they are being pursued and are an essential tools for tracking vehicles within the city streets. Intercept maintains a deep-playa Outpost Zero and is linked to the Department of Mutant Vehicles (DMV) Sometimes Rangers share logged instances of repeat vehicle offenders with DMV, or request information on numbered mutant vehicle license stickers. If participants are unaware of DMV rules and regulations, Rangers educate them and/or send them back to the DMV or back to camp if the DMV is closed. If vehicles / participants repeatedly violate DMV rules, the vehicle may be sent to Long-Term Parking outside the Gate.

      Patrol Black Rock Rangers

      It is important to note that the Black Rock Rangers are not law enforcement personnel. However, because Black Rock City stands at the intersection of several legal jurisdictions (represented on the playa by the Pershing County Sheriffs Department, the Washoe County Sheriffs Department, Bureau of Land Management Law enforcement, Nevada State Highway Patrol, and other Nevada state agencies), Black Rock Rangers are at times required to interface with law enforcement personnel when event permit obligations require. In addition to event rules such as the no vending policy, prescribed speed limits, and ban on firearms, Black Rock City is also subject to the same laws that govern public conduct in any Nevada city. Black Rock Rangers work cooperatively with law enforcement groups in dealing with criminal conduct such as theft, assault, domestic violence and child abuse. Every year Black Rock Rangers call on law enforcement to help with a very small number of evictions or to deal with violent behavior.

      Rangers share logged instances of repeat vehicle offenders with DMV, or request information on numbered mutant vehicle license stickers. If participants are unaware of DMV rules and regulations, Rangers educate them and/or send them back to the DMV or back to camp if the DMV is closed. If vehicles / participants repeatedly violate DMV rules, the vehicle may be sent to Long-Term Parking outside the Gate.

      All Rangers are empowered to prevent vehicles from endangering pedestrians, bicyclists and campsites and can establish radio contact with the Intercept Team if necessary. Rangers watch for vehicles operating unsafely in Black Rock City and attempt to Ranger the situation. They are encouraged to use their best judgment in determining whether a vehicle is posing a safety hazard.

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